On my blog I described some of the aspects of the Irish culture and tradition, but the issue I have faced is much more complicated.
The question is what does Irish culture mean and how is it look and the most important – what does “being Irish” mean? Since I have been familiar with Irish culture and history in a more than general way I can understand some reasons, but some of them are still unclear.
The two things that determine the each nation are language and history (both modern and earlier).
Ireland during the many centuries faced many invasions from Vikings, Anglo-Normans through the English and Scottish colonization. It is obvious that in that conditions it was very hard to keep own language alive, and after many centuries descendants of Vikings or Anlgo-Normans and later colonisators are Irish for sure and for them the Irish language have never been their own. In addition the Irish speaking population was decimated because of famines and emigration to America. When the Irish independent movement has started Ireland was probably (I guess) more or less English spoken land. The Gaeilge that survived in some remote parts was only one of the symbols of independence more than a commonly known language (apart of some regions), and because of the symbolic meaning has become a primary official language in Ireland.
It is obvious that Irish language is primary in Ireland, as for example Polish language is official language in Poland, or Czech language in Czech Republic, or… which is probably more accurate – Hebrew is primary in Israel and Yiddish (which is a dialect of German) is not official. Till the end of the 2nd World War, Yiddish – a German dialect – was a primary Jewish language, and Hebrew had been dead for about 2 millenniums and was used only during masses and other religious services. During the 19th century – in a period of awake of nations Hebrew and Irish (and many other European languages) has been rediscovered and transformed to a modern versions. After the war the Jews founded their own country and got rid of Yiddish, and Hebrew was brought to live after about 2000 years. In 19th century many of almost dead or forgotten national languages was brought to live again, and they are spoken now. That was a matter of national identity in Poland and other Slavonic countries under the Russian, German, Austrian or Turkish rule. Of course in Poland our language was always alive, but in the other countries the national languages used to be alive at the same level like Irish in Ireland.
Unfortunately Irish language is almost dead. Irish people prefer English, and despite many efforts English – the secondary official language is, in fact, primary one. The historical background is obvious, but it is very interesting question – why the bringing to live Gaeilge as the Irish language has failed?
For the last 4 months I have been asking Irish people why don’t they speak Irish at all. The most popular reason or excuse is that the English language was known widely in Ireland, and they parents were English speakers, and the Irish lessons at school were treated as a unnecessary duty. As a matter of fact Irish language is unneeded and most of the Irish population don’t care about it. Only some people I met could sing some songs or could communicate in Irish, but I am not sure about the level of their language. Some of them finds Irish as a cool and sexy which can be helpful in attracting women or men. Maybe it is, but I am afraid that Irish people just forgot about the most important reason – national language is a identity of a nation.
Of course there are Gaeltacht regions, but they are very small and you need only couple of minutes to drive throughout them. Moreover they seem to be kind of reservoirs which is very meaningful.
>I can’t agree with the excuse that Irish people got used to English which is now the common world language and it is easier. Of course it is, but there are bilingual nations with living their own national tongue (Japans, Swedish, Norwegians, Israelis).
Modern Irish culture resembles American one. Multicultural but mainly Anglo-Saxon or Anlgo-Norman with many emigrants and their own cultures and the Irish – Gaelic culture which is a one of the tourist attractions like American Indians in USA.
Irish people like Gaelic Football, Hurling and Irish music but they don’t like their own national language.
I have tried to learn Irish, but I found nobody who could teach me or help me. Moreover, during last 4 months I met only one Irish speaking family. I still want to learn Irish, and I am looking for somebody who can help me with that or teach me.
The map of gaeltacht regions is meaningful as well. Is the Gaeilge an Irish language?
(map by Wikipedia)
While I would be one of those in favour of continued support for Irish, I would have to say also that while language is a cultural indicator, it is not the sole over-riding one. Otherwise, where does that leave the Austrians, the French speaking Belgians, the Australians and the Americans, seeing as all of them speak languages which technically belong to other nations?
Of course, but there is big difference. Austrians are one of the German nations and they have been always speaking German, the same situation is French speaking region of Belgium.
As I wrote above - Gaeilge has never been the only one language in Ireland and for centuries its coverage has been decreasing and the attempt to bring it back to live as an Irish language has failed.
I have nothing against English language but I can’t understand and I can’t find an reason why Irish people abandoned Gaeilge despite atempts to keep it alive.
It’s not that it was abandoned, so much as English was supported. It was an economic decision. If you wanted to make money in Ireland, you needed English because that was the language of the British ruling establishment, and if you wanted to get ahead when you emigrated, you needed English if you went either to England or to America.
In the past 100 years, it has been appallingly badly taught in Irish schools. Aspirations have not been backed up with practical sense here.
That was the same like in central Europe, but instead of Brittish English ruling establishment here was German or Russian. Most of the Slavonic or Baltic languages were used only in the country not in the cities. That’s why I know the reason why Gaeilge has been decreasing and it is obvious.
I wonder why in the independent Republic of Ireland the effort to bring it back to live, or even to keep it as it was, has failed so much.
Gaeilge has never been the only one language in Ireland and for centuries its coverage has been decreasing and the attempt to bring it back to live as an Irish language has failed
That’s not quite right. While–like most other countries–other languages have always been spoken here to some extent or another–Irish was always by far the dominant tongue. It was only just over 150 years ago, rather than over the space of centuries, that the language went into decline.
The reason for its decline was that it became associated with failure. Events like the Famine never occurred when they did, the language would never have gained the negative connotations it did. That’s a critical point to understand when trying to make sense of the state of the language today.
Had things gone differently, you’d be living in a strongly bilingual country.
But contrary to what you might have been lead to believe, things are changing. The language isn’t seen negatively now, except by outliers. Through the likes of Gaelscoileanna (Irish-language schools), Irish is being taught far more naturally than it was in the past; it used to be virtually beaten into you at worst or treated much the same way as Latin at best. Such methods don’t encourage a love of the language.
Me, I’m not to worried about Irish. Sure, it’s been through hard time in the past, but it’s thrown off the shackles of shame that held it back till a decade ago. Nowadays, the primary shame for people like myself whose grandparents were gaeilgeoiri is that we don’t have a sufficient fluency in the language. I think that’s a good thing to be ashamed of.
And yes, Gaelic is an Irish language, and so is English, ISL, and Ulster-Scots, and so were Yola and Normand when they were spoken here too.
A cháirde.
Looking at this topic from a German perspective, I’m struck by the similarities between the almost total disappearance of the once widely spoken Slavic languages in Middle and Eastern Germany and the fate of the insular Celtic languages. With the exception of Sorbisch, a slavic language related to both, Polish and Czech, there is nothing left now of these languages. The Sorbisch speaking Germans, in their last stronghold around Bautzen (near Dresden) live in a bilingual world like the Gaeltacht in Ireland and Scotland although Sorbisch was politically and financially supported by both, the former GDR- and the current FRG-Government, the number of native speakers of this language is in steady decline.
It seems to be the case, that a ‘Language’ is a ‘Dialect’ surrounded by an army, a navy and a bureaucracy. From an historical perspective languages come and go and they have really nothing to do with national identities. Just ask the Swiss about this question.
For an interessting revisionist sociological analysis of why the Irish and presumably also the Scots chose to actively dump the Gaelic language in favor of English, please check this link out - http://www.aislingmagazine.com/aislingmagazine/articles/TAM28/Romantic.html
Is mise
John-Alfred Ullasmann
Thanx for all comments. I can understand all of the circumstances (from famine, emigration and English rule), but the fact is that the Gailge is just an part of a folklore and except some of Gaeltacht regions it is unknown even by the Irish people and it is going to be forgotten quite soon I am affraid.
THe problem with Slavonic languages is in some parts different.
First of all… the germanisation of western-slavonic tribes was much more hard - so they became Germans actually. Except Lusitian Sebrs (as you call them Sorbsh) near Budziszyn (Bautzen) there is no more Slavs in Brandenburg, or German Pommeren.
There is only Slavonic town and place names.
In Slavonic nations language was the main national identity (2nd one is history) and in Greater Poland, Slask (Schlesien) or even in Kaszubia the Polish or Kaszubian language survived almost untouched despite very strong pressure from the German goverment during period from the end of 18th century to the end of the 1st WW.
The ressistance was so strong that Polish language has never been wiped out.
The families that had losen Polish language became German actually.
In a part of Poland occupied by Germany for about 2 centuries, in some period Polish language was forbiden, and was not taught in schools.
I will answer much more accurately when I have some more time.
…I can’t find an reason why Irish people abandoned Gaeilge despite atempts to keep it alive.
If you want to understand, read a book on the famine. Or watch “when Ireland Starved”, an old, but very good documentary. You can buy it online for about 15 euro. Also try reading something on transgenerational shame.
Think about this: a million people died of abject poverty, and hunger, disease, starved in the space of 5 or ten years, a million and a half more emmigrated, this from a population of 8 million. Now think of the psychological effect, PTSD etc. I live in Galway, did you know the the western seaboard, Connemara and those area that are shaded in your map were the most populated in Ireland prior to the famine, more so than Dublin, Cork etc?
These just sound like facts an figures until you read some of the stories. In Irish the famine is called the “bad life”. To really embrace the language means coming to terms with difficult aspects of Irish identity e.g. colonization, subjugation.
Add to this a centuries old smear campaign, of Irish as being connection with the past, romantic, impractical celts etc that has, to some extent, been internalised and you might begin to understand why.
Also, if you want to understand it, don’t be surprised if you piss people off asking them “why they abandoned their language”! This is a highly emotive issue
There’s something that it’s important not to forget: Ireland is an island. National identity here is defined more by the fact of the physical island than it is by anything else. People end up more insular - by definition - and therefore identify most closely with everything else on the island.
While I have no great love for Irish as an effort worth going through, I’m confident that things are changing now as the younger people get more confident in their own identity. Ireland also has had a past of an inferiority complex, in the shadow of England, which has historically been richer in per-capita terms. It’s slowly growing up.
To Michael: I can understand the way and reasons why Irish language almost disappeared in the past (famine, emigration etc.), and I don’t call it “abandoning language”.
Thanks for recommending me that documentary. I am going to buy and watch it.
What is strange and what I can not understand is the failure of bringing Gaeilge back to life in the 20th century.
For example… I read in newspaper (as far as I remember it was Irish Independent) that last 2006 it was 10th anniversary of TG4. I can not understand why there was no Gaeilge full time tv channel prior TG4?
I can not understand two completely different attitudes to Gaeilge at the same time:
One - Gaeilge the symbol of identity - Irish language taught at schools. All major official statements, roadsigns etc. have to be written in Irish first - keeping Irish as a first official lingo.
Second: there were no so much support from the state to bring Irish back to life outside the Gaeltacht regions. Especially the support in the media. It seems that the situation have changed when TG4 were founded - but in my opinion it was too late.
I know that the question of the own language is very sensitive, and I know that I can piss somebody off, but… I am interested in that question due to I really like Ireland, and to be honest… the failure of bringing Irish back to life is a fact.
I hope that Gaeilge will have its time back again.
To Barry Kelly: Thanks for adding another point of view on that case.
Tá go leor leabhar gur féidir leat a léamh as Gaeilge agus bheadh a mhalairt de thuairim agat a Mhaic. Tá an Ghaeilge beo. Bím á labhairt gach lá de mo shaol. Bíonn tú ag léamh agus ag éisteacht le Béarlóirí agus ag labhairt Béarla. Foghlaim an teanga le do thoil, tá go leor áiseanna ann chun cabhrú leat. Táim ag scríobh seo as Gaeilge, tugaim dúshlán duit a fháil amach cad atá ráite agam. Táimse ag foghlaim Polainnis mar is teanga Éireannach í anois. Tá breis litreacha agat i do theanga conas a scríobhtar iad ar an idirlíon? Ba mhaith liom rud a rá leat i Polainnis ach gan na litreacha tá sé deacair.
Co to?
Kay… so far I haven’t found anybody who would be able to give me basics of Gaeilge. So I can understand only some words from your comment (like the last phrase - Polish lingo is difficult or Gaeilge is alive). So I would be greatful if you can write it again in English. Translating Gaeilge with just some words I know is still quite difficult.
and I am still looking for somebody who would teach me some Gaeilge, enough to move on and to be able to learn more by myself.
This is a tranlation:
There are many books in Irish you could read and you would have a different opinion, Mac. Irish is alive. I speak it every day of my life. You read and listen to English speaking people and you speak English. Please learn the Language, there are many facilities to help you. I am writing this in Irish, I challenge you to find out what I have said. I am learning Polish because Polish is now an Irish language. Your language has more letters than mine, how is it written on the internet? There are things I would like to write in Polish but without the letters it is difficult. (end of translation)
I hope my website helps you to learn some Irish. You could start by using the dictionary and then maybe some of the verbs, oddly enough the irregular ones are the most commonly used. If you master them you will be well on the road to fluency.
Go raibh maith agat (means thank you)
dziekuje -
I haven’t met one single Polish speaker in Ireland yet but I wouldn’t ever think that that means nobody speaks polish here or that Polish is a dead language.
Ta failte romhat.
I know some simple phrases and about 100 words (maybe more) in Irish.
Well I wrote that post on my blog because I am actually sad. I found Irish Gaeilge and Scottish Gaelic (which I tried to learn on Outer Hebrides 11 years ago) one of the most beautiful languages in Europe. But… so far I have met (face to face) only about 6 or 8 Irish who were speaking to each other in Irish. More over I met a hundreds or more of Irish who were absolutely not interested in Irish language at all! When I asked them why didn’t they use or at least why didn’t they speak Irish at all, they had always excuses like famine, emigration or English domination. I know it very well. It is as the same thing as Polish people claim that we are the best, but we were under siege and destroyed many times by Germany and Russia. That is why we have to emigrate etc. We can always use history as an excuse, but as long as we are lazy and we actually don’t want to keep our traditions and language alive, those excuses doesn’t work.
That’s why for me Gaeilge is dead in most of the Irish minds.
I wrote that text to bring up or maybe to provoke some Irish to discussion, and maybe to ashame some of you. Especially in sentence: “English is an Irish language”.
Don’t you think it is quite sad, that the only Gaeilge speakers I can listen to, are presented in TG4, and if I want to hear a daily life conversations I have to watch Ros na Run?
Irish is very difficult language. I am sad, because without a real help of some Irish speakers and without opportunities to have some conversations, learning Irish will be very hard.
Ok. I know that not all Irish used to speak Irish in the past. I am living in the Pale mostly English-spoken land for centuries.
As for Polish lingo:
To be honest, I am not glad that Polish is an Irish language at the moment. I would be glad if Polish people were learning and speaking English at least. Because Ireland is not Poland and speaking only Polish we will close themselves in a Polish getto. I have been working for integration - a real one - of Polish community into Irish. But unfortunately Poles are very reluctant.
you can’t assume that Polish is dead being in Ireland and haven’t met any Polish person so far.
and I have been in Ireland for a year…
Ta mé brónach mar gheall ar dar liomsa nil sé an Gaeilge beo.
go raibh míle maith agat as www
Ní dóigh liom go bhfuil aon cúis agat a bheith brónach. ( I don’t think you have any reason to be sad)
Famine, emigration and foreign domination are reasons not excuses. I am sorry that you feel the need to label anyone lazy and that you may think that making people feel ashamed of not speaking Irish is going to be productive. Believe me this approach has been tried already and if anything it might explain some of the negative attitudes to the language which you are now aware of. I am grateful to people who made sacrifices so that we might survive. How can I condemn them for doing all they could to give us the means of survival? Many of us are alive today because of these people. In a comparably few years people here mastered a language that was foreign to them. Is that something to condemn us for?
I have to say I like the idea of Polish people keeping their language alive here. I do not like that the idea of anybody being forced to speak a language which is not their own by poverty, lack of employment, starvation, or the wish of another nation or person to dominate them culturally. These are problems which need to be solved and should be. Famine and cultural domination take time to recover from. Can’t we be gentle and patient and less judgemental with ourselves.
I am learning Polish because it is difficult and different and because now there are many Polish people here and I would like to be able to speak to them in their language and to understand them when they speak to me this is my way of saying I am glad you came to us and I know we can learn many things from each other. This morning I discovered a whole range of Polish produce on a shelf in the local supermarket. This is something I haven’t seen before. I am looking forward to meeting someone from Poland soon and speaking Polish to a real live Polish person.
To return to the subject of Irish I am sorry to repeat myself but I will say this message again, there are new books, Cds and internet sites to help anyone who wants to learn Irish, and I know that there is a growing demand for them. This is not indicative of a dying language surely.
I really hope you will never be discouraged in your efforts to learn Irish or that anyone else will be through reading your blog.
To be honest I would much rather speak the language than engage in these kinds of debates as often I think they are just used as attention seeking and to stir up emotions on the subject. I don’t know you well enough to even speculate on your objectives.
É sin ráite cuireann sé gliondar chroí orm cupla focal a bheith agam leat as Gaeilge. Labhraimís Gaeilge le chéile as seo amach! Tá Gaeilge agat níos mó ná cúpla focal fiú, comhghairdeas as sin!
(That said I am delighted to have a few words with you in Irish, let us speak Irish to each other from now on! You have Irish, more than just a few words, congratulations for that.)
I hope that you will have the opportunity to use and practice your Irish in the future and that you will meet at least some of the many many people who have a more positive attitude to it.
Beir Bua is Beannacht,
Kay.
As for Polish people in Ireland and Polish lingo - I am Pole so I speak with other Poles in Polish, but I can also speak with Irish or other English speakers in English. In that term I can regard myself as a quite open person.
I am against closing ourselves in a gettho with walls built of lack of communication with the Irish, and it is quite common now among Polish community in Ireland. We will be Poles and we are fine with that, but we should be able to speak English as well.
As for the accusation of seeking attention. I dare say I am quite fine with having attention both Irish and Polish readers (as well as other nations), and here in my blog the place where I am just expressing my thoughts and reflections on all of the aspects of living in Ireland. Unfortunately I have nobody here in Carlow nor Nenagh who could teach me and who could speak with me in Irish except some commonly known sentences.
also I take your accusation pretty far general. You can regard all my opinions on this blog as an attention seeking. Don’t you?
is mise
No I don’t and it wasn’t an accusation just an observation made on the basis of experience elsewhere. If I had believed that I wouldn’t have bothered to reply. I believed that you were genuinely interested in Learning Irish and I wanted to encourage you and to help you. These aspects of my message seem to have escaped your attention.
Is trua
le meas
Kay.
Ok… I had no intention to argue or to offend you. Trust me all I wrote above about Gaeilge it did in good intension.
I know some good websites with the basics of Irish, but what is most important is to have somebody to talk, or at least to write (e-mails for instance).
For example. I had never learned English, at school or during the studies. What I know I have learned by myself during many trips to Scotland. When I came to Scotland first time I was hardly able to communicate.
So… the best way for me to learn Irish is to talk, or to write and at least to try
Sonas ort!
I am not offended, and I don’t mind if you disagree with me, you are entitled to your opinion. I may not have convinced you that Irish is not dying but I will still continue to try. I am glad you are still interested in learning.
I going back to my Polish course now in the hope that one day soon I will be able to write to you in Polish. I have solved my problem with the letters so I have made a start.
Cześć!
Excuse my mistake.
I meant to say - I am going back to my Polish course.
I’m sure if you put up a sign asking to meet people who speak Irish you would get interest! Every town in Ireland has Irish language enthusiasts!
http://www.archive.org/details/irishenglishdict011837mbp
Very nice Irish language dictionary to download! If you have any questions about the language dont hesitate to ask!I know one Polish woman (ironically I guess she is living in Poland!) who has a very good level in it!Her written Irish is nearly better than mine! Maith an fear!
Hi,
I really enjoyed reading this blog.
Found it while I was looking for some information on a language my mom spoke when she was growing up. It was a combination of Yiddish/Hebrew and Gaelic.
She is rather old now and it is difficult to get much information out of her about it.
I remember her speaking this in the mid 50’s and as I got older, it was of no interest to us kids and she eventually stopped speaking it.
If anyone knows where I could get information and some lessons in it, I would appreciate it very much,
Shalom
What a combination! Never heard of that Caoilfhionn! Where did she grow up that she spoke that? New York? The only possible explanation for this is a Yiddish speaking parent & an Irish speaking parent! Tell us more please!
Tá an Ghaeilge beo a chara ach is éigean duit eolas a bheith agat le teagmháil a dhéanamh le daoine a bhfuil líofacht an teanga acu. Is féidir go bhfuil ag siúl thar daoine a bhfuil Gaeilge acu gach lá gan fhios duit! Tá mé féin breá sásta an teanga a theagasc duit más mian leat.
There are a lot of people speak Gaeilge who do not make a public issue of it because of scoffers and, in the north of Ireland, people who still maintain the colonial hostility to the language. However it is not all bad news, from one school with a handful of students in the 1970s, there are now around 4000 children being educated through the medium of Irish in the north and some 37,000 across Ireland (outside the Gaeltacht). This is the most promising development in the last 150 years.
I teach Gaeilge and can help you find someone to teach you.
Aodán
Hey MacKozer! Nice blog you have here and it’s fresh and interesting to see Ireland viewed from a foreign perspective.
Good luck with your search to find someone to teach you Irish. I would help if I could but currently I myself am also abroad, away from my home. I’m living and working in Estonia and very much integrating and learning Estonian.
Slán’s beannacht leat as an Eastóin! | Greetings from Estonia!
Hello Mackozer,
I found this blog while searching through the Web looking for my final thesis paper topic. I had some in my mind and couldn’t make up my mind. One of them was language identity in Ireland.
Honestly, this blog got me inspired and I’m much closer now to decide to explore and write about that. I spent the last semester in Ireland as an Erasmus student, studying at UL. During these 5 months I had a somewhat insight into Gaeilge situation in Ireland. I found it a really interesting matter. I still need to read a whole loads of books and publikations about it to be able to write an academic paper with a “proper” thesis.
Thank you for the blog and I hope I could count on your help, if needed while working on my paper
Go raibh míle maith agat!
Kamila